Traci Scherck: Welcome to talent optimization my name is Tracy Scherck we are continuing our conversation this month talking about mentoring programs inside of our organizations.

Traci Scherck: And let me tell you, we have a special treat today.

Traci Scherck: With me is Bob Greg and Bob is a partner at boardman and Clark and Madison and my favorite part of his introduction, is that.

Traci Scherck: One of his jobs throughout life was being a beer tasters so we’ll get to that in a second but that’s going to share with us a bit about what are some of the pitfalls to mentoring programs for the legal perspective, I know I know downer right but it’s not so Bob welcome.

Bob Gregg: Thank you very much.

Traci Scherck: So Bob i’m super curious what are some of those you know key things within mentoring programs because it’s an absolutely wonderful concept but you’re an attorney so we’re always looking to say how do we protect our organizations.

Bob Gregg: Right, but you know mentoring programs mentoring is wonderful, I mean it’s got so many benefits.

Bob Gregg: But there are areas caution.

Bob Gregg: In which mentoring can create negative effects it can have adverse impacts on and legal liabilities.

Bob Gregg: Most of the concerns come under the discrimination laws and mentoring cases challenging the arms of mentoring have been brought down to sex, race, national origin, religion, age, disability, all of the things covered back discrimination.

Bob Gregg: You know, if we want to talk about the major areas there really a failure to take a look at the in formal.

Bob Gregg: Aspects of mentoring, because we design programs, often on paper, without lands and we don’t even take a look below the surface and find out the really some of the.

Bob Gregg: extracurricular informal things are much more critical than the actual form or proven formal program another area is matching people and I guess the third area is similar it’s choosing mentors that actually have skills, all of which goes into the area of discrimination, so.

Bob Gregg: I don’t know if you want me to just launch him to number one or.

Traci Scherck: yeah and what’s really fun is you know, last week, so if you’re if you followed our podcast or if you haven’t go back and listen to last week’s where we talked about high potential mentoring programs, and we actually hit on all three of these.

Traci Scherck: Because one of the things I think that’s incredibly important with mentoring, is how we set up that Program.

Traci Scherck: But the fact that informal mentoring happens, and I will name for me, the majority of the mentoring i’ve had in my life has been the informal mentoring and it’s been so incredibly valuable.

Traci Scherck: But how do you get those informal mentors what does that look like, because that matching it has huge liability in it so i’ll let you launch into that one.

Bob Gregg: Well, my concerns about the informal the extracurricular part is of course the harms.

Bob Gregg: That are done other people are much more adept at saying here’s how you do things and, of course, as an attorney I say here’s how you don’t do things be cautious, of these, and if you’re cautious of these then.

Bob Gregg: With that caveat go ahead and see what you can do.

Bob Gregg: Often, people say Bob are you a.

Bob Gregg: inspirational motivational speaker, and I say, oh no i’m a De motivational speaker.

Bob Gregg: motivational speaker say accomplish test the limits color outside the lines I say stay inside those lines, you could be sued so.

Traci Scherck: This is how do we stay inside the lines inside of mentoring programs.

Bob Gregg: Well here’s the first one, the informal.

Bob Gregg: off the job social issues have consequences, and many people, many organizations have things that are extracurricular like you’ve got the company basketball team.

Bob Gregg: And so, when it may be the pet peeve of the Vice President of an executive and so, if you join that team you spend a lot more time with the executives with the managers, you get to pick up the inside track because people talk.

Bob Gregg: The trouble is they talk a lot in the locker room that’s how you get to know people there’s only one gender in that locker room.

Bob Gregg: And so, if that’s a significant way to get known to get recognized to be on the inside track and when there are chief assignments well they’re obviously going to pick the people that they know and like because they’ve met them in that extracurricular.

Bob Gregg: So organizations have found that if that’s the way you get a head it automatically leaves out certain people, both on gender perhaps on disability, perhaps on a variety of other things.

Bob Gregg: And it’s not that we shouldn’t have those we should find a way to identify these hidden issues and find a way to balance them find a way to get similar experiences for other people who just don’t fit into that.

Bob Gregg: That locker room or whatever the activity is another issue, and even a bigger one.

Traci Scherck: Beer drinking like the beer drinking club can be an issue, but what i’m hearing you say there is the next one i’ll talk about.

Bob Gregg: Because often people do go out in the say hey let’s go to happy hour let’s have a social event let’s and I know in in the legal profession.

Bob Gregg: For instance, and I think in sales and a few others.

Bob Gregg: You know, we had in our law firm and some of the really experienced attorneys a couple of them that, like to take out the new associates said let’s go in and buying beers.

Bob Gregg: And that’s where you learn the worst story that’s where you got the real experience that you would never ever ever get simply working with somebody who’s your mentor on a brief and learning the law and the techniques and.

Bob Gregg: And going through a case I mean you really got your knowledge and listen.

Bob Gregg: It was important, it was crucial and when you did that again those people who were buying the drinks, the really good attorneys.

Bob Gregg: got to know you, and they would select you next time they had a trial, for instance, that was going to be significant well The trouble is not everybody fits there you know I didn’t fit into that.

Bob Gregg: I became a single parent when my child was 14 months old and I wouldn’t go into any after work tricky I had to go home, I had to pick up a kid I had to cook dinner, I had to take care of.

Bob Gregg: That wasn’t there and I was unusual because I was like man, the vast majority overwhelming majority of single parents are women, and out of that a huge percentage are women of color of various groups.

Bob Gregg: they’re not going to get that experience now i’m not suggesting we say never drink beer like invite me now that much it’s much older and.

Bob Gregg: But how do we get that experience for people who don’t meet them Oh, first we have to identify that that’s how people are getting experience, because we never even thought about that.

Bob Gregg: And that’s the inside track, not only that, but there are people who don’t go to bars there’s the sun knocks versus sun trust case is one of my favorites where the Vice President just loved by everybody drinks and leaned on them go to social events and come with me.

Bob Gregg: After work and Mr Knox said well you know my Christian beliefs say that I, I should not drink, and I should not go to places where people do.

Bob Gregg: Vice President didn’t like that.

Bob Gregg: And he started going around to church boy don’t drink church boy he thinks he’s too good to go out with us and Mr next suddenly.

Bob Gregg: was missing out on assignments, all the other people were distancing from him because they didn’t want to get on the bad side of the he.

Bob Gregg: And he wanted major case because his religion prevented him from getting the mentoring from going to where things really happen you got the inside track or if I choose.

Bob Gregg: A place to go and do that and I have not thought of the comfort level of other people, is it access accessible.

Bob Gregg: or uncomfortable as a white man, I never noticed that there was any issue here, but when you walk in, and you are perhaps not male or you are not white.

Bob Gregg: And you start taking a look at the posters on the wall and you know the way people look at you.

Bob Gregg: Oh, nobody ever looked at me like that that’s cause I look like them, but when people come in different and it’s uncomfortable to go there, there was one instance.

Bob Gregg: A few years ago where this sort of informal get ahead stuff happened in a tavern and if you looked on the wall, this was back during the Indian rights.

Bob Gregg: period, there was a big poster that said spearfish shoot an Indian spirit Indian now that’s not conducive.

Bob Gregg: To the comfort level, and of course the the guys never even looked at the data, I never even noticed right, and so we have to do some thought about where.

Bob Gregg: So, again i’m not going to say let’s stop doing this i’m going to say we’ve got to think through where how who doesn’t fit and how do we get similar experiences.

Bob Gregg: To those people, because only some people that that obviously leads to discrimination, at least, discrimination and paid because the people that benefit it.

Bob Gregg: are getting the choice assignments they’re getting the bonuses and so we have an equal pay case for people to do an equal work.

Bob Gregg: But they just didn’t get the inside track and we wonder, I wonder how that happened well because human resources or the executives never did the analysis so that’s it’s important to review and find out what are the informal channels.

Traci Scherck: And what is that analysis that you would suggest right because there’s one thing of saying hey let’s take a look at what bars we’re going to Arc can we do this, you know at a different I know i’m still going to bars.

Traci Scherck: But you know, can we look at this and say you know we’re going to do a Bowling tournament i’m you know or we’re going to go do some other activity, and you know that may not be that we’re going to go snowshoeing or whatever it is right.

Traci Scherck: Where there’s different options and it’s not always the same.

Bob Gregg: Well, and I think that’s a good thing to do and i’m not suggesting that what we do is now let’s find the whole round of extracurricular activities because, again, sometimes in order to solve a problem we can help created a great burden.

Bob Gregg: Correct correct goodwill org now they want me to snow shoe.

Bob Gregg: and

Bob Gregg: Some, but what my suggestion is that we look below the surface, and these are just a couple of examples of the informal hidden things that create the real.

Bob Gregg: mentoring and so let’s identify what that is let’s talk to people about what they’re doing in their interaction talk to the new people about you know how are you meeting people, what are your activities that you’re doing with people but.

Bob Gregg: You know, maybe a variety of other things, but there are a lot of informal channels that we don’t even think about because we’ve never bothered to try to study and identify them.

Traci Scherck: Absolutely.

Bob Gregg: There was number one.

Traci Scherck: yeah and it’s also, I think the conferences that you go to and who you’re riding in the car with or who you’re traveling with I mean that.

Traci Scherck: is key time that there’s no distractions that a lot of really great conversation can happen, and how are those individuals chosen, so now we finished number one.

Traci Scherck: You know, and we look at you know major areas of caution under the anti discrimination laws and i’m curious for what you have for these.

Bob Gregg: Well, and that’s you know, the first one is a major area, because the people that don’t quite fit, but the second one is a little more overt.

Bob Gregg: And that is how do we do some of the match and I.

Bob Gregg: i’m not an expert on how you match people up but here’s how you don’t.

Traci Scherck: You don’t want to be the matchmaker Bob know.

Bob Gregg: Terrible matchmaker I try to stay out of that.

Bob Gregg: In the.

Bob Gregg: reaction, for instance, to the hashtag me to movement and the real concern for sexual harassment, a number of organizations.

Bob Gregg: took the opposite approach and in their fear of sexual harassment, they made a decision that no man will mentor a woman period, no I think you’re going on the surface, say that that’s a discriminatory.

Bob Gregg: In order to prevent discrimination, we create discrimination.

Traci Scherck: Like how we create bigger problems with our solutions.

Bob Gregg: that’s right and they didn’t think about it, the, this is a rush to protect, and it also makes a presumption that you know men are beasts and women or whatever, but here’s the effect is that two effects number one you create a segregated mentoring Program.

Bob Gregg: To since we are still a society where most senior positions are held by men it automatically meant that women did not get mentored by the people at the top of the organization they got mentored by the middle tier or the organization, where women tend to be.

Bob Gregg: And so they didn’t get those choice assignments, they didn’t meet the big clients they didn’t get known by the people that were at the top of the organization.

Bob Gregg: And so, again, the same effect as over time that meant that the people who were mentored by the people at the top got known they got more bonuses, we have an equal pay, and we have an equal development, and we also have an equal retention because people become keenly aware.

Bob Gregg: Of this.

Bob Gregg: And not only that we have denied those men, the opportunity to work with people who are different than the to get to know and trust the abilities.

Bob Gregg: of people who are different than the, and so we perpetuate the problem that we were of discrimination that we were actually trying to prevent a similar thing works and stereotypical and limiting assignments, especially in the area of race, we want to make sure the people who are different.

Bob Gregg: feel comfort.

Bob Gregg: And one of the ways we do, that is, we assign them to somebody of their race.

Bob Gregg: To do the mentoring and that has the same effect because.

Bob Gregg: Exactly, because where where’s the power in the organization and we concentrate the mentoring and therefore perpetuate the power at one end in the middle level.

Bob Gregg: with different races and we have denied the mentors the ability to understand get used to trust, people who are different than the.

Bob Gregg: we’ve harmed the organization, but we have also created overt discrimination in our zeal to make sure people fit in and feel comfortable you know, one of the things that I would suggest.

Bob Gregg: Is that if you have a concern about stuff like this, especially sexual harassment and etc have a team.

Bob Gregg: Do all this mentoring.

Bob Gregg: I mean there was nothing that says it’s going to be a one on one.

Bob Gregg: That dual mentoring, will help me because i’ve got somebody who is a peer as a mentor who can help me understand who can second guess my biases my judgments my reactions help me grow and enable me to help the new employee, so you know team team mentoring, can be a really good concert.

Traci Scherck: Absolutely and there’s some power of Triads right and we use.

Traci Scherck: A lot of.

Traci Scherck: coaching but that triad is then when there’s you know that that mentoring, or that coaching going back and forth that you have a third party that’s that listener.

Traci Scherck: They see things that neither of the other to kind of everybody is learning from that.

Bob Gregg: Exactly tell me have learned so much by being.

Bob Gregg: On a team of people different than I, you know I think i’m pretty enlightened.

Traci Scherck: don’t we all right exactly it makes you trouble.

Bob Gregg: We all think we’re good people, and we all think we are good people.

Bob Gregg: And we all think we are going to do things to solve problems like prevent discrimination.

Bob Gregg: But you know I grew up with, who I am among the people I grew up with my culture my values and I react to other people through that and.

Bob Gregg: i’m not even aware, I have biases right until somebody who was different than I, like a Co mentor a member of my team, who has different points it out to me and says, you know I don’t see it that way, makes me examine it.

Bob Gregg: You know, because we’re triggered by our past if you ever met somebody.

Bob Gregg: i’d meet somebody I never saw before and I don’t like.

Bob Gregg: I don’t know.

Bob Gregg: yeah but I don’t like them and i’ll treat them like somebody I don’t like i’ll have an attitude about who they are, and what they do and then i’ll wake up in the middle of the night like uncle jack.

Bob Gregg: He reminded me.

Bob Gregg: And so.

Traci Scherck: Our unconscious biases right can I mean certainly we have the unconscious biases, but we have the multiple competing priorities that happen.

Bob Gregg: For people will remind me of my aunt banana who I love wow and the other person on the team did not have my aunt, but in fact they’ll say you know this person isn’t very good as.

Bob Gregg: Older golden and then we take a look at it, and I am reacting to my biases but, fortunately, they did not have my uncle they did not have my hand they did not have the drill sergeant if you remind me of my drill sergeant im sorry.

Bob Gregg: And so.

Bob Gregg: That difference of perspective, makes me stop and wonder why I am making these presumptions.

Bob Gregg: And so that dual mentoring can be wonderful.

Bob Gregg: And it’s golden in trying to catch discrimination and to enable the organization to say Okay, we can have a man or a woman, we can have a woman mentor man, we can have people.

Bob Gregg: get to know each other.

Bob Gregg: Who are of different races groups and work together and enhance the process.

Traci Scherck: yeah and so we’re talking about you know the mentors and you know, in a second we’re going to get into how our mentors actually trained, because I think that’s a piece of it.

Traci Scherck: But also so last week I talked a lot about high potential mentoring programs, and one of the key issues that we have with how we choose our mentees.

Traci Scherck: Is there’s a key distinction between if somebody has potential and if somebody is actually performing and what that performing is because, as organizations, we don’t always do a great job of tracking performance.

Bob Gregg: yeah.

Traci Scherck: Because we just like them, because they remind us up you know.

Traci Scherck: I right.

Bob Gregg: that’s correct and you know, I think that is the third area.

Bob Gregg: And I think perhaps the more difficult one, because the first.

Bob Gregg: The one we just talked about, I think, is overt enough that you can say oh yeah.

Bob Gregg: I can see how that works, the other one the informal one once we were able to identify it well now we’ve identified it and we can do something about it, the third one is assignment and who gets to be a mentor.

Bob Gregg: That one you know I will leave to the experts, but the problem is that.

Bob Gregg: We don’t give thought to it, we say soon soon as a good performer Therefore, they must be a good mentor.

Bob Gregg: Not necessarily they found out that in universities, many years ago, in order to teach high school.

Bob Gregg: You have to go through education classes and you have to get certified in order to teach at the College level, you have to show that you published a lot of articles that doesn’t mean you can teach them.

Bob Gregg: means.

Bob Gregg: you’ve got the credentials you don’t have to take a single education course in your life to teach a science course to teach or whatever, and so they realize they hit a lot of people in classrooms that we’re excellent at performance and rotten.

Bob Gregg: Instead up there and drove away, and if you go to sleep and the same thing happens when.

Bob Gregg: You haven’t attended any of my seminars.

Traci Scherck: got a really good one coming up, though.

Bob Gregg: So anyway so sometimes they say you’re a good performer therefore and that doesn’t mean they have the skills.

Bob Gregg: Sometimes organizations go down the list, they say okay who’s next on the list of mentors who’s next one was leaders put them together without any thought of the match, and especially when we go back to the issue of discrimination.

Bob Gregg: We don’t think about whether the person has the understanding and the ability to.

Bob Gregg: mentor somebody who is different than me because, like I said I come in with my set of pre conceptions, who I am where I have come from my culture.

Bob Gregg: And if I have not had any understanding of the fact that not everybody is like me and not everybody’s going to do it, like me, and why, then this is a recipe for failure.

Bob Gregg: I mean we’ve done that in our law firm.

Bob Gregg: We have we started with the issue of.

Bob Gregg: interviewing you know we recruit we try to do verse 30 and then we interview people and so senior staff and attorneys come on in the interview the candidate, how do we select who interviews well we put out a memo and says.

Bob Gregg: You know we’re going to have some interviews next Tuesday anybody interested come there are free sandwiches.

Bob Gregg: So people come.

Traci Scherck: To see ever.

Bob Gregg: you’ll get a lot more concerned about Where are you ordering the sandwiches rather than can I see the resume of the applicant.

Bob Gregg: And so, people are in there and they’ll just stumbling all over there, asking questions that are wholly inappropriate because, how would the tax attorney know what’s human resources and what.

Traci Scherck: You mean it you don’t have a formal interview training program for your.

Bob Gregg: Now we do.

Traci Scherck: Because I can do that for you, but no.

Bob Gregg: No we identifed that.

Bob Gregg: And you’re not supposed to be able to interview people first, unless you have some knowledge about the illegal areas, please do not do the do nots and then let’s talk about.

Traci Scherck: don’t ask him if you went to church with me, you know.

Traci Scherck: Right exactly.

Traci Scherck: And what church, it was.

Bob Gregg: him, you know where are your kids going to go to school.

Bob Gregg: And I mean just stay away from that, but beyond that you know we’re developing a.

Bob Gregg: I think a fairly robust diversity program with.

Bob Gregg: Trying to achieve understanding in general of people and then selecting those people who actually have.

Bob Gregg: participated gone through that and demonstrated some either understanding or especially understanding of what they don’t know and then who do we team up with to make sure that that happens, and so it’s, how do we select people who are appropriate for a.

Bob Gregg: group of folks that is going to be diverse and they are going to be working with and training people who are different than they are, and therefore they need the skill to teach the profession, but also the skill to interact with people are different and get them get them up and moving.

Traci Scherck: yeah and I think one of those things, whether this is a legal issue or not, but I think it’s really important.

Traci Scherck: Is when choosing who your mentors are they also have to be learners right because there’s so much that you can learn from a mentee but if they’re completely cut off from that it’s not a mutual relationship.

Traci Scherck: With the back and forth in the seeing what’s there yeah the mentors there to guide the person.

Traci Scherck: Because they’ve been in those shoes and they’ve been through those war stories and those things, but there also has to be a back and forth there and that’s where i’ve seen a lot of mentor programs fail because they’re ineffective because that mentor has an unwillingness to learn.

Bob Gregg: I have learned so much from both the people on teams that i’ve done with who are working with new employees and so much in the people that I have the new employees that come in, because they bring so much that is different, that I was not aware of the fresh perspective.

Bob Gregg: And right, I have to approach this knowing that I am going to get a benefit out of this as well and i’m going to learn some stuff.

Bob Gregg: You know the other thing that we need to do, and I think I mentioned this before is, we have to have a review process, we have to more than just checking hey how you doing.

Bob Gregg: Everything going okay you working good with Charlie.

Bob Gregg: No, we have to have a more robust formal.

Bob Gregg: way to check in to see, is it working, is it not to find out what people’s perspectives are what their comfort levels are.

Bob Gregg: etc what other things that they are engaging in and, especially, who else they are working within the organization, because sometimes you find out that the mentor mentee that’s okay well when I really got an issue I go to this other person.

Bob Gregg: Right, and now we can identify especially we have we have an attorney, for instance, that.

Bob Gregg: Over time, we have realized, a lot of the new associates, regardless of who they were assigned to they saw yeah I go to john.

Bob Gregg: john is somebody with particular skills in patience who.

Bob Gregg: Is not the mentor but he actually is right, and so you identify the appropriate people that right.

Traci Scherck: And those informal mentors it’s understanding what that is and then sometimes you don’t want to formalize it right, but there’s times, where you need to figure out Okay, what is john doing so we can duplicate this in a positive way.

Bob Gregg: Correct you got to have a little bit of formal structure, otherwise there are people fall through the cracks we don’t know.

Traci Scherck: yeah absolutely and one of the things that that we always do is we set up what are the business results are trying to get from this right what So what does that business outcome, are trying to get from having a mentoring program and actually setting up those benchmarks right.

Traci Scherck: You know, is it that the mentee is gaining confidence is it that you’re going to look at what percentage of these individuals are actually promoted within the next five years.

Traci Scherck: Is that you’re looking at did we decrease customer complaints by.

Traci Scherck: Whatever it is right.

Traci Scherck: You know, but but that confidence pieces, a huge one and just you know, having that list of here’s 10 areas that we really want them to look at here’s where they rate themselves at the beginning of the program in the middle, at the end and having that.

Traci Scherck: mentor do the same thing with how they feel this individual is doing, because it starts to pinpoint Okay, you know these are the core values of the organization and these are the things that the traits we’ve identified that will get them to the next level, I mean it’s very.

Traci Scherck: Good being in a management meeting versus being in a board meeting versus leading a board committee versus a board meeting, like those are all different levels that you need to incrementally get to that.

Traci Scherck: You can have some really significant impact with mentoring, but it has to be the right time, with the right objectives and align to it.

Bob Gregg: Absolutely i’ve been nodding my head.

Bob Gregg: up and down on everything you say, and then I realized.

Bob Gregg: That this is not video and nobody can hear my head right So yes, absolutely.

Traci Scherck: i’ve been doing the same my hands are going.

Traci Scherck: awesome so with That being said, I guess, do you see any pitfalls specifically relating to how you set up the structure of your Program.

Bob Gregg: You know, I think that one is the one that I will leave to the experts.

Bob Gregg: Because my my you know here’s the here’s the thing about my profession is I get to tell you what not to do.

Bob Gregg: I say, if you want somebody who’s an expert at doing this.

Bob Gregg: Keeping those discussions in mind, then, I recommend other people it’s, not that I don’t solve problems and I do have a lot of good ideas and many areas, this one, particularly, I think I would refer back to the people that you have already spoken to and who have already.

Bob Gregg: You already have programs with yeah.

Traci Scherck: yeah absolutely and we do have some mentoring program so if any of our listeners are interested in it, we do have our mentoring program where we actually come in and we train your mentors so there’s a couple different levels of that, but before we.

Traci Scherck: You know close out here, Bob i’m curious so we’ve talked a lot of different things, and you know we’ve got two different audiences that listen in so what’s a takeaway for our executives and CEOs listening in today.

Bob Gregg: I think the main one is take a step back and realize you’re mentoring program is not a formal program that’s on a piece of paper.

Bob Gregg: It requires you to do some in depth viewing of how it actually works in reality and the reality is often the informal parts, the things that we don’t think about.

Bob Gregg: The selections that we make, and so look under the surface, take a look at these cautions use those as guideline look under the surface, because that’s where most of the mentoring takes place.

Traci Scherck: Absolutely and what’s the takeaway that you have for HR professionals.

Bob Gregg: They should they’re in charge of this.

Bob Gregg: they’ve got to set up this program and.

Bob Gregg: and convince people that and, frankly, I think that in most organizations, the HR.

Bob Gregg: function creates the mentoring program and help select.

Bob Gregg: And does the training because look I am if I am if I am the professional doing the work.

Bob Gregg: i’m not going to devote my time to creating an education program for me.

Bob Gregg: In fact you’re going to have to persuade me.

Bob Gregg: That I need it.

Bob Gregg: What is the HR function is to do the homework and set up the framework and then get people’s by and participate in learning understanding and I think the HR function, along with your Executive Committee or whoever that may be.

Bob Gregg: Then, does that selection in the matching of people.

Traci Scherck: awesome Thank you so much, and if you want more Bob who doesn’t want more about right.

Traci Scherck: um but Bob again is what boardman and Clark and boardman and Clark, is that Wisconsin SHRM legislative sponsor.

Traci Scherck: which also provides monthly employment law update so we’ll have a link to that So if you want on their monthly employment law update list they’re amazing.

Traci Scherck: But also, if you’re in the Wisconsin area, we have our day on the hill coming up in February and Bob.

Traci Scherck: is one of our keynote speakers for that conference and that’s a phenomenal Conference, so we will also have the the information in the show notes for how to register for day on the hill anything else you want to add 40 on the Hill and the fun that you’re going to share with us there.

Bob Gregg: Well, I look forward to it because anytime that we have a conference and people show up it’s not just about the learning it’s about seeing each other it’s a place where you can go and let down with your fellow HR people hmm and so it’s it’s a very.

Traci Scherck: is there former mentoring that happens there Bob.

Bob Gregg: All kinds.

Bob Gregg: there’s actually a reception The night before that is a.

Bob Gregg: really good thing for networking, but also to connect with people and I hesitate to say this, but i’ve been a member of SHRM now for 40 years.

Bob Gregg: I have found that the people that I joined to get professional connections with have become, my friends, they have carried me through the traumas of single parenting.

Bob Gregg: of divorce, the joy of remarriage.

Bob Gregg: a heart attack cancer.

Bob Gregg: In they have reached out, and carried me through, as I have been able to reach out and carry them through their career transitions and support each other.

Bob Gregg: And only if you participate actually show up and meet people you get the true benefit of this compatriots who are willing to give you support in your career and even your life.

Bob Gregg: So that has nothing to do with the program i’m talking about which is just the annual legal overview of some things that you ought to know a smattering things you ought to know, but the real advantage to the conference any conference is the connections.

Traci Scherck: Absolutely Thank you so much for being on today, I really appreciate, you and I appreciate us getting you know that this look into your brain and your expertise and what not to do.

Traci Scherck: And please join us at day on the Hill and thank you so much, we hope you all have a great rest of your day.